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Эдуард Плинер: все было не зря

Эдуард Плинер

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Эдуард Плинер: все было не зря

О том, что Грузию спустя несколько десятков лет намерен посетить основатель фигурного катания страны Эдуард Плинер, СОВЕ сообщила Мака Гиоргобиани – президент Федерации фигурного катания. Легенде советского спорта через месяц исполняется 80 лет, но, не смотря на возраст, тренер нескольких поколений олимпийских чемпионов полон энергии и готов воспитывать новых звезд. Нино Шамугия побеседовала с Эдуардом Георгиевичем о том, как все начиналось в далеких 60-х и к чему сегодня пришли…

– Вас без преувеличения можно считать отцом-основателем фигурного катания в Грузии. Почему в середине прошлого века вы решили развивать этот зимний вид спорта в кавказской республике?

– Во-первых, я давно знаком с грузинской культурой. Еще будучи студентом, прочитал «Витязя в тигровой шкуре». Во-вторых, я был влюблен в грузинские танцы. Был восхищен Баланчивадзе (Джордж Баланчин (Баланчивадзе) – хореограф, положивший начало американскому балету и современному неоклассическому балетному искусству в целом, – прим. СОВЫ). С его братом – композитором (Андрей Баланчивадзе – грузинский композитор) – я познакомился уже здесь (в Тбилиси). То есть, было много причин оказаться здесь, но главное, пожалуй, то, что здесь не было ничего. И я, как молодой специалист, прошедший «школу» тренера сборной СССР, решил, что мне надо начинать с чистого листа. Этим чистым листом в то время был только Тбилиси. Приехав сюда, я понял: это мое. Я хорошо знаю историю Грузии, культуру, литературу… Я был знаком с Вахтангом Чабукиани (артист балета, хореограф, балетмейстер, педагог).

Понимаете, молодой парень (на тот момент Плинеру было 23 года, – прим. СОВЫ), бездомный… я только институт закончил – нет своего места, нет своего дома… Когда я сюда приехал, меня встретил совершенно незнакомый человек. Увидев, что я в растерянности, пригласил к себе, сказав: «Пойдем ко мне домой, у меня переночуешь, а в понедельник пойдешь в Спорткомитет» (смеется). Так оно и вышло.

Георгий Васильевич Сихарулидзе, председатель грузинского спортивного комитета, меня встретил, пригласил человека, который должен был отвечать за фигурное катание. Они разговаривали по-грузински, но я понял, что речь шла о том: «Кто этот мальчик?!» (смеется). Вот так все началось… Первый лед я залил в Воронцовском дворце, перед окнами Центрального Комитета партии. Я там залил баскетбольную площадку, всю ночь заливал, а на утро уже катался. Окна одно за другим с 9 утра стали открываться, пришла женщина, которая сказала, что тоже хочет покататься. Это была жена первого секретаря ЦК. То есть, с первых дней у меня была большая поддержка.

Эдуард Плинер

Эдуард Плинер

Что было самым сложным, с какими проблемами вы столкнулись в Грузии, помимо отсутствия инфраструктуры для фигурного катания?

– Отсутствие инфраструктуры и было главной проблемой. Чтобы построить Дворец спорта, был сооружен экспериментальный купол; авторы – архитекторы Каджая и Касрадзе. Когда я это увидел – понял, что во Дворце спорта многого мы не добьемся. В первую очередь, там была маленькая площадка, хотя уже были построены холодильные установки. Я вступил в серьезную борьбу за этот экспериментальный купол с очень достойным человеком, с ректором ГПИ (Государственный политехнический институт, ныне – Грузинский технический университет, – прим. СОВЫ), который под этим куполом хотел построить баскетбольную площадку. Но мне удалось убедить. И три с половиной года мы строили эту школу.

«Запусти любого ребенка из тех, что я увидел на катке в Батуми, в любую европейскую или американскую школу, 20 тренеров предложат свои услуги. Потому что это – настоящие бриллианты»

– С тех пор прошло более полувека. Как бы вы оценили современное состояние фигурного катания в Грузии? Не все ведь было зря?

Эдуард Плинер в Ледовом дворце в Батуми

Эдуард Плинер в Ледовом дворце в Батуми

– Совсем было не зря. Ничего никогда не пропадает. Если семя брошено в хорошую почву, плевела не вырастут, вырастет хороший урожай. Я, честно говоря, был потрясен тем, что увидел. Прослезился… Наверное, старость… но это были слезы благодарности тем, кто продолжает это дело. Было так трогательно… А то, что обо мне рассказали детям, родителям… Они меня так встречали… Правда, я не основатель фигурного катания в Грузии, как выяснил сегодня. До меня здесь были два грузина Николадзе и… Чичинадзе (подсказывает Мака Гиоргобиани), было это в 1800 каких-то годах. Они, правда, были не только фигуристы…

Понимаете, это дело всей моей жизни. В это трудно поверить, но запусти любого ребенка из тех, что я увидел на катке в Батуми, в любую европейскую школу, или в американскую, североамериканскую, 20 тренеров подойдут и предложат свои услуги. Потому что это – настоящие бриллианты, таланты. Мальчик Илия (Илия Гогитидзе – бронзовый призер международного турнира в Будапеште в 2014 года), мальчик Эгадзе (Ника Эгадзе – двукратный обладатель золота сезона 2015/16), а девочки какие! В целой России таких сотня, а здесь – четыре! Это – четыре бриллианта, их нельзя потерять. Но, кое-что расстроило до глубины души – я надеялся встретиться со своими учениками из Тбилиси, но ни одного из них не было…

– Они уехали?!

– Да нет, просто не сдали какие-то тесты. Федерация (Федерация фигурного катания Грузии) разработала систему тестов – чтобы выступать на Чемпионате Грузии, надо доказать, что ты что-то умеешь. В прошлом году выступали тбилисские дети, но у них не было конкурентов; они заняли первые места, стали чемпионами. Но где они сейчас?! Знаете, когда я организовывал школу, она называлась «Детско-юношеская спортивная школа олимпийского резерва». Где этот резерв сегодня?

Вчера поздно вечером я зашел на каток в Тбилиси, говорят, два года там шел ремонт… Вид жалкий (по словам Маки Гиоргобиани, у Федерации к этому катку нет доступа, он числится на балансе мэрии). В мое время за дизайн, покраску этого катка отвечал Зураб Церетели (живописец, скульптор, дизайнер, президент Российской академии художеств) – тогда еще молодой, малоизвестный. Все было… Конфетка была. Сейчас этого нет. Знаете, что пугает?! То, что уже прошли Мурванидзе (Вахтанг Мурванидзе – семикратный чемпион Грузии 1997-2003 годов в мужском одиночном катании), Гедеванишвили (Элене Гедеванишвили – чемпионка Грузии по фигурному катанию 2003 года; бронзовый призер чемпионатов Европы в 2010 и 2012 годах) – участники Олимпийских игр, так, на минуточку… Они вышли из этой школы. Имена их первых тренеров сегодня никто и не вспомнит. А что опасно?! Что эти дети уже имеют позади некоторую пустоту; что школа не работает на резерв. Сегодня мы побывали в министерстве спорта, встретились с президентом Олимпийского комитета, он мне очень понравился, по человеку видно, что он будет работать.

pliner

Лед в Тбилиси обещают?

– Обещают. Но его надо ждать… Пока появится, пройдут год, два… Но за это время тбилисские дети должны расти, а им даже арендовать лед не дают. Ну что это такое?! Слава богу, что сейчас хоть в Батуми есть каток нормальных размеров, но ведь не все тренеры могут туда поехать. Они бросают свои семьи, как я бросал свою, едут черт знают куда… Поэтому, главное сейчас, чтобы подготовка смены происходила в Тбилиси. Год-два пройдет – дыра будет невероятная. Хотя, я надеюсь на тренеров. Я посмотрел их работу, дети обучены, вылизаны. Такое не каждому тренеру удается. Это очень важно в Грузии, потому что их всегда будет мало. Грузию не сравнить ни с Китаем, ни с Россией. В Минске, к примеру, тоже есть фигурное катание, там 30 катков, а фигуристов нет, тренеров – нет. А здесь все тренеры – бывшие мои ученики или ученики учеников. А сколько грузинских тренеров работает сейчас за границей?! В Америке, в Германии, в России… Прошло 56 лет… Я хотел бы еще приехать в Тбилиси – на открытие катка.

– Вы внесли весомый вклад в становление самой титулованной грузинской фигуристки. На примере Элене Гедеванишвили расскажите, какими критериями руководствуются тренеры при решении работать с молодыми, начинающими спортсменами?

– Прежде всего, нужно привить любовь к делу, которому мы служим. Конечно, должна быть и селекция. Надо, чтобы человек тоже влюбился, чтоб был работоспособным. Трудно назвать какой-то один критерий. Бывает, что человек, который сегодня ничего собой не представляет, завтра становиться выдающимся спортсменом. Вклад в Элене я считаю своим достижением, может быть, одним из последних в жизни. Да, были проблемы с тем, чтобы получить лицензию на Олимпийские игры, но мы ее получили. Когда я узнал, что она из Грузии, решил – я должен, обязан помочь. И, как вы знаете, это сработало. Было непросто, если бы она (показывает на Маку Гиоргобиани) это не организовала, ничего бы не получилось.

«Чтобы добиться высоких результатов, надо иметь характер, чтобы иметь характер, надо его воспитывать, пока ребенок помещается поперек лавки»

– Вы, будучи известным тренером в СССР, в самом расцвете сил бросили все и переехали в Соединенные Штаты. Почему?

– Я надеялся, что в Америке – богатой стране, где у людей есть деньги – при материальной поддержке, при американских традициях, смогу сделать что-то новое. Меня и приняли там как особую персону. Но поменять менталитет – невозможно. У них свои традиции: американские тренеры не очень доверяют тренерам одиночного катания не американцам.

– Почему?

– Видите ли, фигурное катание – очень дорогой вид спорта, думаю, самый дорогой после горных лыж. Дорого стоят тренерские услуги, лед, инвентарь… И там традиция такая, что нельзя на ребенка… надавить хоть чуть-чуть. Нельзя. Это неправильно. Чтобы добиться высоких результатов, надо иметь характер, чтобы иметь характер, надо его воспитывать, пока ребенок помещается поперек лавки. Сейчас я свидетель упадка американского фигурного катания. А почему?! Да потому что из миллионов вырастает один бриллиантик. Приведу пример: Брайан Бойтано (олимпийский чемпион 1988 г. в мужском одиночном фигурном катании, двукратный чемпион мира 1986, 1988 гг., четырёхкратный чемпион США 1985, 1988 гг.) – из набора групп массового катания. Тренер росла вместе с ним и доросла до олимпийского резерва. Должно очень повезти, чтобы был и талант, и деньги, и знания тренера, и лед. Вот туда я и поехал, но мои надежды не сбылись. Я работал у Саши Коэн (серебряный призер зимних Олимпийских игр 2006 года, трехкратный призер чемпионатов мира, победительница финала Гран-при сезона 2002-2003 и чемпионка США 2006 года). А вот Рафаэль Арутюнян, воспитанник моей школы, который 11 лет работал на стадионе пионеров в Москве, вырос в прекрасного тренера, и в прошлом году получил звание «Тренер года». В Америке не американец, получивший «Тренер года», – это событие. И знаете, что еще важно? Нужный человек в нужном месте и в нужное время. Меня пригласили на каток моей мечты – три катка под одной крышей. Я благодарен Америке за то, что мне не пришлось испытывать тех трудностей, что я испытывал. Моя тренерская судьба в общем счастливая, я посадил дерево в нужном месте, воспитал прекрасных фигуристов в России, и сейчас мне обеспечили хорошую старость (смеется).

– Остались ли у вас нереализованные планы?

– Да! Да! У меня была девочка на Олимпийских играх, хотелось, чтобы она была первой. Она стала призером Чемпионата мира, серебряным призером, а хотелось, чтобы была золотым, и это было возможно… Конечно, остались… Видите, в Америке я себя на высшем уровне не реализовал…

“Должно очень повезти, чтобы был и талант, и деньги, и знания тренера, и лед”

Мне кажется, что сейчас спад переживает не только американское фигурное катание. В целом к этому виду спорта потерян былой интерес. Такая ситуация сложилась после введения новой системы оценок проката?

– 6.0 – старинная система, она не обеспечивала полную объективность. Надо было измерить искусство логарифмической линейкой. Введение хоть какой-то градации сложности должно было двинуть фигурное катание вперед, и оно это сделало, но мы потеряли публику. Раньше люди были вовлечены, но сейчас фигурное катание настолько выросло, настолько изменилось, что появилась необходимость в новых критериях. Их ввели, и они объективны на 1000%, но появилась вторая оценка – та, что раньше была за исполнение. Вот здесь есть нюансы. Этих критериев пять, тогда как технических – только один. Этими вторыми оценками начали манипулировать.

– То есть, они слишком субъективны?

– Да, если технически ты выполнил-невыполнил, то здесь все сложнее: интерпретация, хореография, представление… Раньше все было в одной оценке. А теперь, когда у тебя этих критериев пять, ты можешь подкинуть спортсмена. Простите за выражение, но когда мальчика Арутюняна, блестяще откатавшего программу с шестью четверными прыжками, убрали на четвертое место, к нему подбежали корреспонденты: «Раф, Раф прокомментируйте». А он поднял руку и сказал: «Guys wake up! F*ck you!» Такое мог сказать только наш человек.

Безымянность судей – неправильно. Раньше судьям за отметки приходилось брать на себя удар, а сейчас: кто, что, куда? Популярность упала еще и потому, что раньше в той же Америке были личности: Брайан Бойтано, Тоня Хардинг, Нэнси Кэрриган; сейчас таких личностей, к сожалению, в Америке нет. А вот в России они появляются. В этом году девочка выиграла все что можно. Это – дочь моей ученицы, Жанны Девятовой, Женечка Медведева. А работает с ней воспитанница нашей школы – Этери Тутберидзе. Вот вам, пожалуйста.

«5% успеха – талант, 95% – работа»

– Какой совет вы бы могли дать начинающим фигуристам, чтобы они достигли олимпийских высот?

– 5% успеха – талант, 95% – работа, труд. В Америке я научился говорить такую фразу: мы с тобой не учитель и ученик, мы с тобой – партнеры. Это самое главное – когда учитель видит в своем спортсмене партнера, они могут пройти через все. Это мое убеждение. И есть еще один компонент, который зависит не от тренера и спортсмена – это организация. То, что сейчас делает Мака, даже не знаю… на таком уровне организовать соревнования… можно хоть завтра проводить международные соревнования.

А вот Ираклий (Ираклий Джапаридзе – бывший президент Федерации фигурного катания Грузии) за столько лет… Где каток?! Я понимаю: война, революция… Понимаю и то, что надо было кормить семью, за границей лучше зарабатываешь… Но как же дело?

Это смешно, но когда мы были в Музее спорта, Мака представила меня: вот, мол, первый в Грузии и все такое… А у нее спрашивают: Джапаридзе?! Знаете, что сказал директор Эрмитажа Пиотровский, когда приехал на развалины Пальмиры в Сирии?! Он сказал: «Варвары всегда сначала уничтожают историю, чтобы сказать: история начинается с меня». По-моему, он (И. Джапаридзе) тоже старается уничтожить все, что было до него, чтобы сказать: с меня все началось, на мне и закончится. Не верю я, что на нем это закончится.

Эдуард Плинер с супругой и Макой Гиоргобиани (президент Федерации фигурного катания Грузии)

Эдуард Плинер с супругой и Макой Гиоргобиани (президент Федерации фигурного катания Грузии)

К нашей беседе присоединилась нынешний президент Фигурного катания Грузии, у которой СОВА уже брала интервью.

М. Гиоргобиани: Я настаиваю на том, что основателем фигурного катания Грузии является именно Эдуард Георгиевич. За прошедшие 56 лет никому так и не удалось открыть в столице второй каток. Я давно хотела пригласить его, но все никак не получалось. Сейчас в Федерации все относительно спокойно, и нам очень хотелось пригласить Эдуарда Георгиевича, чтобы он дал свою оценку. Нам важно его мнение, его критика. Специально к его прибытию мы провели Чемпионат Грузии по фигурному катанию. И его положительные отзывы – стимул к тому, чтобы работать еще лучше. Мы уже добились, пусть и небольших, но результатов. Мы одерживаем победы за границей и, таким образом, вносим лепту в победы нашей страны.

Э. Плинер: И про беленький флажок с крестиком не спрашивают: «Кто это?» Во всем мире уже знают.

Эдуард Плинер с супругой и Макой Гиоргобиани (президент Федерации фигурного катания Грузии)

Эдуард Плинер с супругой и Макой Гиоргобиани (президент Федерации фигурного катания Грузии)

Выражаем благодарность ресторану PERVAK за содействие в организации интервью.

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